Thursday, May 08, 2008

Perfect Scam


So I had a co-worker come talk to me yesterday about an Amway...err, Quixtar new product that is for sale: Perfect Water. They wanted my input on the "science" behind the claims that perfect water was making. Now I am no scientist, nor microbiologist nor chemistry major... but I do have half a brain (maybe a only a 1/4, I did hit my head a lot when I was younger)... but that seems to be more than the jokers who are trying to market this. So lets take a look at some of the claims they make.

First of all, it claims to be Purified (15 times!), Remineralized, Ionized, Microstructed and Oxygen Rich with MBO technology (whatever that means). Lets tackle each of these claims one at a time.

Purification.
Purification is just the process of removing impurities from the water, pretty straightforward. The problem is, most purification systems are based on a size factor, not a "how many times did you run it through" factor. Think of it this way, would you rather drink water out of a river that was run through your kitchen strainer 15 times, or a charcoal filter that filters out down to .1 micron impurities but it was only ran through that filter 1 time? They both are technically "purifying" the water, the kitchen strainer will surely catch any fish, rocks, and most of the mud that is in the water... but sadly no matter how many times you run it through the kitchen strainer you aren't going to be removing micro-organisms that exist in the water. Sadly, Perfect Water doesn't feel inclined to tell us what sort of filtration and purification system they use, just that they use it 15 times. They could use it a bazillion times, but until they tell us what size filter they are running the water through we have no way of juding how "pure" the water is.

From their FAQ:

There’s a lot of hype going around about the source of bottled waters with companies claiming their water is better because it is from a spring, a deep well, an aquifer, a glacier, distilled water, artesian water, or other sources. Regardless of the source and individual preferences, none of it is good enough for our high quality standards. We start with safe water sources tested to be suitable for drinking water and then give it a clean slate with our proprietary 15-step purification process and other technologies so that the water that goes into the bottle is nothing less than “perfect.”

Let me translate the key line there: "We start with safe water sources tested to be suitable for drinking water." Translation: "We use a municipal water supply from whatever city we are bottling in." Their water won't "harm" you, but I would be skeptical of any claims that it is MORE pure than your local tap water. As Perfect Water is a bottled water, it falls under the juristiction of the Food and Drug Administration. Your local water supply is governed by the Environmental Protection Agency. The FDA requires one test per week on bottled water and it's safety, the EPA requires HUNDREDS of tests per week on your tap water... and on top of that the FDA estimates it is only able to regulate about 40% of the bottled water in the US (I don't know where Perfect Water's standing is on the list) while the EPA conducts it's tests on 100% of the water systems in America.

Remineralized
From their FAQ:

Are there Vitamins in Perfect Empowered Drinking Water™? We developed Perfect Empowered Drinking Water™ to be a pure, clean, and natural tasting drinking water.

Why is there Sodium in Perfect Empowered Drinking Water™? The Sodium in Perfect Empowered Drinking Water™ is to help enhance smoothness and flavor.

Anyone see anything contradictory about those 2 statements? If it's developed to have a clean natural taste then why do you need sodium (which we as American's consume WAYYYY too much of, and is NOT condusive to healthy living) to improve the flavor? They claim they infuse their water with trace amounts (which means it is such a small amount that they aren't required to list it on the nutritional information label) of Magnesium, Potassium, Calcium, and Electrolytes. While all of these MAY be contained in the water, it is in such a small amount your body won't notice a difference. Besides, most American's consume upwards of 200% of their daily recommended doses of vitamins and minerals. All of our food from our cereal to our milk to our bread is "fortified" nowadays. Americans are the most vitamined people group in the world, "trace" amounts of common minerals isn't going to tip your body over in to magical happy land any time soon.

Ionized
Ionizing the actual water molecules themselves makes no sense. Water molecules do spontaneously break down into ions such as H+, OH-, H3O+, and OH- every now and then, but it’s only something like one or two out of every billion molecules that do that, and it doesn’t really last long as it’s a reversible process that tends to remain at equilibrium.

What is very common is an ionized solution with water. Basically, that’s what all the water we ever deal with is. All the tap water, rain water, bottled water, ocean water, and all those other waters we ever come in contact with have ions of other chemicals dissolved into them. Pure water doesn’t have those, but then pure water (de-ionized water) is generally only found in some laboratories and large industrial plants (I worked with it at Intel making computer chips). So really, having water being “ionized” can be said to be the normal condition of water. It’s not anything special.

So saying “ionized” is basically this company saying again that they’ve added electrolytes and other minerals to the water. They’re just saying the same thing twice, with different words.

Microstructured
I have to admit, this was the hardest section to write. The reason: this makes no sense at all to me. Here is their “explanation” of the process:

Some call it science, others call it pseudo-science. The only thing really certain is that there is no certainty among the scientific community on microstructuring. . . .While we have and will continue to engage in scientific research because we believe in it, we know what our customers tell us which is that they can feel the difference with our water.”

So in other words, even they say that they have no idea what it is. Reassuring. Above the molecular level, liquid water has no fixed structure. And if you re-structure the molecules, then you get something other than water. The only logical means I can think of to “structure” water is to freeze it. So they’re saying that they’ll sell you ice cubes?

Oxygen Rich (With proprietary MBO technology)
Okay. . .water does, of course, already contain oxygen. Pure water would have one-third of its composite atoms being oxygen, although as I’ve already said we’re not likely to see pure water anywhere but in labs or at Intel. Ordinary water with the usual solution of H2O and a scattering of other odd chemicals mixed together could very well have some more oxygen atoms bound up in those extra chemicals. All of these oxygen atoms are going to be bonded, though, since oxygen is very reactive and you basically never find individual oxygen atoms floating around alone in nature (even if you had a tank filled with nothing but oxygen atoms, they’d combine with each other into molecules of paired atoms).

They also claim that heating or cooling the water won’t have any effect on its ability to contain this extra oxygen, which is rather strange seeing as how raising the temperature of a water solution reduces the amount of gases that can be dissolved in it.

So there’s really no way to have free oxygen mixed into water long enough to have it bottled, shipped, and sold, especially seeing as how they claim a shelf life of two years. You have to bind it to other molecules. And bonding oxygen to water molecules gives you hydrogen peroxide, which is not something you want to go around drinking lots of.

And to top it all off, I don't know how many of you have gills, but I sure don't. I think I get plenty of oxygen from breathing. What is the point of having extra oxygen in your water? We aren’t fish.

A few other dandy's from their FAQ page:

Perfect Water will flush out Fat

Any fat that is already a part of your body is not going to be in any position to be “flushed out” by water you drink. Besides, fat isn’t water soluble.

Many of our customers do report that drinking Perfect Empowered Drinking Water™ seems to provide them with more energy than other waters they have tried.

As most of you know, I am currently dieting. The "science" behind dieting is quite simple: reduce the energy you intake and increase the energy you output, your body needs extra energy to make up the difference and so it consumes fat (idealy, sadly your body will also consume muscle, hence why when dieting you have to workout to retain your muscle, but thats a story for another time). But the point is that in our advanced scientific age, we have a way to measure that energy. It's called "calories." Perfect water claims to have no calories. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Granted, they don’t actually come right out and plainly state that their water gives you energy. . .but they subtly make the suggestion that it can. Which seems to me like a rather sneaky way to try to give people the idea that their water has extra properties without actually facing the risk of legal action if it’s found that the water doesn’t do what they hinted.

Please note that Perfect Empowered Drinking Water has not been designed, nor tested, for treating, diagnosing, mitigating, curing, or preventing any disease or medical condition, nor for specific performance enhancement in any category, and no claims are made. Nor are any such claims authorized regarding the use of the water for any purpose other than as a drinking water.

So after all the claims of what Perfect Empowered Drinking Water will do for you, if you read far enough down the page (and it's a LOOOONG page), they make sure to cover their bases and tell you: it won't actually do anything for you.

Conclusion
It seems like Perfect Empowered Drinking Water is sadly neither Perfect, nor Empowered. But it does live up to it's claim to be drinking water, so I supposed it at least got one thing right. Most American's don't drink enough water and are underhydrated (we consume diaretics like caffiene left and right, coupled with our large intake of sodium the typical American is definitely underhydrated, and borderline dehydrated) so drinking more water is never a bad thing. But as many have heard me rant before (I will save the long winded post for another time) our municipal water systems are under stricter controls and better purity requirements than bottled water, so paying $2 for a bottle of water that is AT BEST as good as your local tap water seems... silly. The container for Perfect Water is kinda cool, so I suppose if you need a nice container to carry around with you at work to keep hydrated (which would be a good thing) I suppose there is some value in that. But if you feel the "magical" effects of Perfect Empowered Drinking Water, sadly that has more to do with the much studied and proven "placebo effect" than any actual properties of the water.

69 comments:

Koralmae said...

Ryan, brilliant blog, as usual. You hit on all the points (and even some additional ones) that I want people to be aware of.

I have no problem with those who choose to purchase this product for $2/bottle or $50/case if they want to. If it makes them FEEL better, well then hey, more power to ya.

But I DO have a problem with my friends and co-workers being subjected to a "spiel" that is designed to mislead. (Misleading others to purchase something they don't need is not very Christian-like, is it?)

When it comes to science, these Perfect Water boneheads don't have a leg to stand on. That's why they pick issues to discuss in their FAQ section they feel some readers may disagree with the science on... i.e. global warming & the big bang theory. I don't know about you, but these theories hold a helluva lot more scientific credence than "molecularly restructured water."

But even if you think global warming and the big bang theory science is bad, all this site is serving to do is say, "Hey, we don't have enuf good science of our own, so instead of talking about that, we'll just divert your attention by talking about other science we happen to think is crap." Uh, that argument really doesn't bolster your claim that Perfect Water is good for you.

And water, no matter its state of matter, whether it be a gas or frozen is still H2O and nothing more! Water is pretty unique in the fact that when it is frozen, it expands. This is a direct result of the weak hydrogen bonds coming together in a tetrahedron-like formation (I learned this in seventh grade). But no matter, what you do to H2O, you can't restructure it! Nature pretty much has some rules about how two atoms of hydrogen (that from the partially positive area of the molecule) and one atom of oxygen (that form the partially negative area of the molecule) bond with the partially positive and partially negative regions of surrounding water molecules.

This company is trying to make the claim that you need their "special MBO technology" (whatever the hell that is...they refuse to say cuz they don't wanna give up trade secrets...HA) to make water more efficient and allow your cells to uptake more nutrients. How has blood done it for so long?!? Blood is 90% water, and I guess I was always under the impression it is an extremely efficient stream of brining necessary nutrients and oxygen to your cells.

Most people spend a log of money to take the hard water elements out of their water, not put them back in, so the addition of calcium and magnesium is just one of those “WHaaaaaa?” moments.

Beware of snake oil salesman. Hold on to your moolah. Geesh.

Rick and Virginia said...

Ryan, I could not agree with you more that most bottled water, and this brand in general is a huge scam, but a few points of clarification. In your brilliant blog you talk about the ionization of water, and that most water is at some state of ionization. This is true, however there are many water filters that work on the ionization principle to remove iron from the water. Iron will bond to ions that are charged the resulting particle becomes larger so a 1 micron filter can filter out the iron.

Second you are correct that fat is not water soluble, but if your body is dehydrated it will not convert fat to energy as effectively as it would other wise. So, while there claim is false drinking enough water will help in dieting.

By the way I am starting a company that will bottle water that is incredibly moist. In fact there are no other bottled waters on the market that can beat how moist it is. It also has the highest wetness factor of any bottled water. Combine the moist and wet factors and my new water will have the highest MWF. (Moist Wet Factor). I am looking for investors.

Ryan said...

Sadly Rick, if you were completely serious, you could sign me up as an investor.

Not because I believe in the product, it would be a complete sham, but I believe in the gullibility and stupidity of the American consumer.

Sounds like a million dollar idea to me!

Koralmae said...

You should contact Amway! (I mean Quixtar!) All you have to do sell your technologically advanced wet water is put it in a pretty bottle.

.justin said...

Rick, that is awesome.


i like the handiness of a bottle of water that i can close and open. and i don't like to "reuse" bottles. but the wal-mart bottle of water is fine for me. we don't ever buy it, but if it's an option, like say at a conference, then i'm all about it.

additionally, plastic bottles, if not recycled are filling up landfills at an alarming rate... so i hear. that's something that bums me out about this "bottled water craze". not to mention the millions that americans spend on what flows from a tap for FREE/Very Little. especially when many many many around the world don't have the benefit of clean water.

i once got yelled at by a hipply liberal lutheran because i had a bottle of water that i was refilling with tap water. he said i was placing a price on water which GOD gave to people for free, and i was a part of the problem when i paid the coca-cola company money for that which should be free.

while he was sort of a nut job, i understand his concept.

if i lived in shelton city and had to drink city water, which now is really chlorinated, i would get a filter. and hope that it fixed the chlorine taste problem. but as it is, we are on a beautifully delicious well. yummy!


BTW: up until a few years ago, every time i'd drink water, i'd have a gag reflex and throw up a little bit in my mouth. thankfully, it doesn't happen very often anymore.
what's that about?

Anonymous said...

my friend had told me about perfect water (i'll just call him gonzo) gonzo said that after drinking a few days ago he could palm the ground bending over. and he demonstrated right there and he could not get close to his ankles.I can't wait to try that shit

Karl said...

The Perfect Water is awesome. Let's forget about the politics surround the water, and just take it for what it is. A good grade of water. I am a Quixtar NA/Amway Global IBO, anyone that wants a sample of the water I will be more than happy to give you a sample. I haven't seen or heard any complaint from the water yet. You can contact me via phone or email through www.shopgfp.com

Anonymous said...

Wow, it is so great to find these un-researched, non-factual blogs all over the internet. First of all, the water is purified through a 15-step system, so how are you even debating that? Wouldn't you have to debate every bottled water on the market today that is purified? It is also proven through scientific research that ionized water is essential in helping to battle chronic illness and disease. So what do you have to say about that? Adult onset diabetes has been cured in some cases due to daily ionized water intake. Micro-structuring has been around for half a century now, we are just starting to hear about the benefits from this. The water molecules are shrunk, so that they are able to get inside your cell walls to clean them, something normal water cannot do because the molecule clusters are too large to fit inside your small cell walls. You can debate that point all you want, but as with every other product that is new to the public, you need to try it to see if it benefits you and your health. Now - about your MBO theories.... It is scientifically proven that oxygen will bond with water, especially because we already know that oxygen is part of water as it is. So the oxygen is not just going to "disappear" (as you said) after the 2 years of manufacturing. What they are saying is the water expires in 2 years because it is not safe to have liquids in plastic longer than 2 years. If you check any type of plastic bottled waters, you will see that they all have an expiration date. So, I'm sorry to discredit your entire blog, but someone had to. Like you said, you are no scientist and it is enormously apparent you have no clue what you are talking about, so why don't you stick to blogging about what you might know more about, like what Britney or Paris is doing this week.

.justin said...

holy smokes, this is great.

ryan, i didn't know you knew what britney and paris were up to this week! please, do share...


but only after you address these incredible comments.


seriously, i feel like it's christmas. i like me some good blogging action!

here's a hint: if the word AMWAY is in your job title, unless it's preceded by "investigation of", most normal people with their heads on straight will run IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!

but i don't want to take all of ryan's homeruns away from him, so please... have at it!

i'm here listening [subscribed] with some popcorn, ready for the show!

i've also got a bottle of the world's most moist water by my side, blowing the roof off of all of my moistened expectations!

Ryan said...

I have to say, this is possibly one of the most exciting days of my life. I have some anonymous commenter butt-hurt over the fact that 1) he can't read and 2) he got scammed.

Lets break your comment down, Dr. Jack style:

"Wow, it is so great to find these un-researched, non-factual blogs all over the internet."
- I think you misunderstood my point, as I was the one using facts, instead of hyperbole and exagerated claims like the manufacturer of Perfect Water. Their own website (which I quoted) even claims that this water is good for nothing more than drinking and has no curative or health benefits. Thats a fact, as is everything else I posted. Not only are they facts, but I actually spent time researching them and learning about them instead of just reading the literature handed out at the sales meeting. So basically, I'm exactly the opposite of what you claim, but hey thats just a minor point.

"First of all, the water is purified through a 15-step system, so how are you even debating that? Wouldn't you have to debate every bottled water on the market today that is purified?"
- I am debating the merits of their purification, and you know what, your right, I would debate the methods of ANY bottled water that claims to be purified. The fact that they run their water through a 15 step purification system, as I outlined in my post, is just a big number for the sake of a big number. They could run it through a strainer 100 times, and then claim it was purified in a 100 step system... is it more pure? 'Purification' is a nice buzzword, but sadly doesn't actually have real meaning in this context. I am not saying it isn't purified, but pointing out the ridiculousness of their claims without substantive backing.

"It is also proven through scientific research that ionized water is essential in helping to battle chronic illness and disease. So what do you have to say about that? Adult onset diabetes has been cured in some cases due to daily ionized water intake."
- Do you have any links or studies I can read on this? I can claim ionized water will make monkey's fly out your ass, but just because I claim it over the internet doesn't make it true. Doing a quick (but hardly exhaustive) search for ionized water and diabetes turned up a few results like "waterforlifeusa.com" (shocking, they sell water ionizers!), thewatergroup.net (another water reseller) and abput 30 other, as I would classify them, snake oil salesmen. A quick search of the AMA, The New England Journal of Medicine, and the ADA (American Diabetes Association) turned up a whopping 0 results on ionized water curing diabetes. I find it shocking that an organization that is dedicated to fighting diabetes and is made up almost entirely of people suffering from diabetes hasn't been clued in to this miracle cure... curious. But by all means, if you have some legit research (not some translated linked Japanese study posted on "buy-my-miraclewater.com") I would be MORE than happy to look at it. (And this is assuming that

"Micro-structuring has been around for half a century now, we are just starting to hear about the benefits from this. The water molecules are shrunk, so that they are able to get inside your cell walls to clean them, something normal water cannot do because the molecule clusters are too large to fit inside your small cell walls. You can debate that point all you want, but as with every other product that is new to the public, you need to try it to see if it benefits you and your health. Now - about your MBO theories.... It is scientifically proven that oxygen will bond with water, especially because we already know that oxygen is part of water as it is. So the oxygen is not just going to "disappear" (as you said) after the 2 years of manufacturing."
-" - First of all this is a snake oil salesmen speak home run right here. 'You can debate the actual science and fact, but you need to try it for yourself to really know!' WRONG WRONG WRONG. Facts are facts, that's why they are facts. If they were opinions they could be debated, but facts are solid concrete truth. The fact of the matter is, there is no possible scientific method for adding "extra" oxygen to water and still have it BE water. It's not even a complicated process to understand, it's highschool level chemistry. Water is H2O, you can make the molucule in to an unstable state by making it have a positive covelent electron and move it to H3O+ + OH-
(you bonded 1 extra hydrogen to an oxygen from the other water molecule) but since this is an UNBALANCED state, the positively charged molecules (the H3O+ molecules) will seek out and bond with the negatively charged moluces (the OH- molecule). You CAN NOT keep the molecules in this state (well thats not exactly true, you could ship your water bottle with a huge ass car battery strapped to the bottom... but since it's just a plastic bottle I am going to assume that Quixtar hasn't also found the holy grail of alternative energy and has it embedded in their plastic bottles). Clearly in the absence of other materials or surfaces, the specific hydrogen bonding pattern surrounding a solute does not persist when the solute is removed any more than would a cluster around any specified water molecule, or else water would not know which of its myriad past solutes took preference. For all the possible structure combinations a water molecule can form in to, might I suggest: http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/index2.html as a handy dandy cheat sheet for the different ways water can both cluster and shape.

"What they are saying is the water expires in 2 years because it is not safe to have liquids in plastic longer than 2 years. If you check any type of plastic bottled waters, you will see that they all have an expiration date. So, I'm sorry to discredit your entire blog, but someone had to. Like you said, you are no scientist and it is enormously apparent you have no clue what you are talking about, so why don't you stick to blogging about what you might know more about, like what Britney or Paris is doing this week."
- While I do find it interesting that I am now classified as a Britney and Paris fan (really, sharp reading skills you have there), perhaps a better attack would be like: "Why don't you stick to blogging about what you might know more about, like who the Blazers are going to draft in the upcomming draft" or something along those lines. It's plainly obvious that you are a Quixtar sales rep who is somewhat butthurt over the fact that you invested who knows how much money in to a product that you could receive cheaper, safer, and faster OUT OF YOUR KITCHEN SINK!

Sadly, I am afraid this is merely a hit and run attempt to save Quixtar face, and I doubt you will return to debate the merits of Perfect Water... but I am open to any comments you may have. Although if you would kindly first read the blog post, so we can both be informed about the facts, instead of just jumping in to attack mode, that would be grand.

.justin said...

hehehe...
"butt-hurt"...
that's great...
hehehehehe...

Anonymous said...

This is in reply - I am just a loyal customer of Quixtar's, I adore Perfect Water and that is why I am defending it. There is no debating the strength/balance tests they give before and after consuming this water and the fact that it is literally impossible to pull someone over after drinking this water has to say something. I have performed the tests myself on a number of people and it has been done on me a number of times - and I am definitely a believer since each and every time it worked for me. Many people say that IBO's have some way of tricking you to not fall over the 2nd time, but it is really impossible to do that from what can see and I definitely would have felt if they were using a different method after drinking the water, as I'm sure most others would be able to as well. So-- I am not trying to attack you, because I can see you are a worthy adversary and are versed in your knowledge of water and chemistry and I apologize for acting "butt-hurt". I just honestly can't see why people are slamming this water so much before they even give it a shot. But, most people are going to be skeptics and I guess you can't change the minds of everyone.

Koralmae said...

Ha, this is hilarious. Those who sell the water are so damn proud of it, they wish to remain anonymous. I'm no chicken shit..I associate my ideas with my NAME and FACE. Sure can't say the same for others.

sam elliott said...

ohhhhhh god, excercise, eat right, follow the golden rule, if you want to palm the ground sign up for yoga, and as far as i'm concerned water just f---ks up good scotch

Koralmae said...

I think it's funny "Anonymous" tells Ryan (of all people) to talk about what Britney and Paris are all doing! Ha. That's my shtick. Someone is either confusing blogs for confusing people. But even I only rarely talk about that on my blog. Anyway, whatever.

And I'm not discouraging anyone from trying this water! I want them to try it!! I want them to see if they can run further, stretch more, feel "empowered." And if they do, and they think the price is worth these accomplishments, then as I said already...more power to you. Good for you. BUY IT. But don't you dare come talk to me about the molecular restructuring of water!

This is funny too. Anonymous seems to think we found out about all the bogus claims this water makes my using "The Google." Every offensive, pandering statement that I've found on this stuff comes directly from and only from the Perfect water website. I honestly went no no further than that site alone. And it was the day that I read the information on THAT SITE ALONE that I knew I could never in good conscience purchase another Quixtar product again.

Never mind that the only way to become "financially free" in this organization is to become such a high level distributor that you're actually the one writing the motivational books, selling the motivational tapes, and giving the motivational speeches where worship of the almighty dollar is encouraged.

Never mind that yesterday I saw a commercial on USA network for Quixtar that called it the Quixtar/Amway products. Yeah, I know Quixtar is Amway despite all the claims from those who tried to get me involved in this stuff in the beginning that it had NOTHING to do with Amway.

Never mind that it's the Amway guys who are the high level distributors who are making all the money in this Quixtar business.

Never mind that those I see who do work really, really, really hard in search of eternal wealth thought their journey would last them two years, but they've been working since 1999 and still have their day jobs.

Never mind that. If you like the water, that's great. I just suggest you go to it's own website, and read for yourself what the marketing claims are associated with this product. Then see who you are lined up with in this debate. (Really, read the entire site!)

Eric said...

They should start selling a vodka product. filtered 15x!! and with minerals! LOL. that would sell. HAHA

Anonymous said...

The ballance test is a trick, before drinking the water, they push on your hand/arm downwards but in angle so that you get thrown off ballance, then after you drink it, they simply push your hand/arm down straight, or towards your leg. No brainer, IT"S A SCAM!

Anonymous said...

Your facts are all wrong buddy. I compared your statements to the Perfect Site, LOTS of discrepancies. Anybody can blog takes a man to look up the true facts, not to just say what you want to sound good. NICE WORK!

5il3nc3r said...

I just wanted to point out that, at least according to their website, their 15-step purification process are actually 15 DIFFERENT filtration processes.

They list it as including: one-micron filtration, carbon filtration, multi-chamber reverse osmosis (finer than that of the human kidney), ultraviolet chambers and ozonated.

Now I don't claim that I know the science behind many of those, but I do know that most water filtration systems people buy contain 1 one of those, and rarely 2 or more.

If this truly uses 15 different purification methods, although it might be overboard, it would be likely that anything that would somehow pass by one will get "caught" by another.

Does that mean everything else is true? No. It just means that that one part of your complaint didn't seem quite as justified, at least to me.

No I am not a "member" of quixtar and I do not specifically approve of it. I'm just pointing out a "fact" I noticed while checking out their website.

Martha said...

Just thought I would add my thoughts to the debate. I have been drinking Kangen ionized water for over 2 years and have been giving the water to dozens of people in that same timeframe who have had a host of different health problems. I have dozens of testimonies of how this water has helped them. The water does not heal anyone, but the water has helped people get their bodies back into balance so the immune system can do what it is designed to do by a three fold synergistic approach. High alkalinity to raise the pH of the body, superior hydration due to the micro-clustering of the water molecules, which can be proven with a dark field microscope and also live blood testing under a microscope, and a -ORP (Oxidation Reduction Potential) charge on the water which makes it a very powerful anti-oxidant. This negative charge disapates over 72 hours and so this water can never be bottled and sold from the store shelves. Any bottled water that claims to be ionized will always test with a +ORP charge as the shelf life is very short, 72 hours. Truly ionized water has a negative charge on it. This negative or positive charge can be measured with an ORP meter and is measured in millivolts. If anyone wants more info on the Kangen water you can go to my website: www.akaKangenwater.com. Be sure to look at the videos that show how the water is used by Dr Hiromi Shinya, a well known doctor credited with pioneering the colonoscopy. He has his patients drink the Kangen water in order to clean and aid the colon. He also talks about using ionized Kangen water in his book: The Enzyme Factor. The Japanese use Kangen ionized water in their hospitals and the Kangen ionizers are considered a medical device there.
Martha
www.akaKangenwater.com

Bryan said...

Okay first off, I'll be straight forward with everyone on here... IM AN IBO!!! Okay with that said on with the actual stuff. Now before you pre-judge me and think you "oh god not another IBO who wants to defend His/her product"...well let me tell you this... I am BEING NEUTRAL on this. NEUTRAL!!!

Okay. PERFECT WATER... hmmm... to be honest I really don't know what MBO EMPOWERED TECHNOLOGY really means and how it's Oxygen rich. Nor do I even fully understand the "scientific" claims it says on our bottles BUT what I do know is the results. Ryan, you say facts are facts, But if this water is just water and NO ONE has been able to DEBUNK the claims ... HOW can you say its the "PLACEBO EFFECT"??? To be honest, I HARDLY think its the Placebo effect BECAUSE I do MY demonstrations differently then what most IBO's are taught. I respect your skepticism and I too was a skeptic on this certain product but the more I tried to research it the more I tried and tried to debunk it. Like for instance, BASIC Statistics... I had 15 friends of mine be the test subjects and split them in 3 groups of 5's. One group had SMART WATER, one group had TAP WATER, and Obviously the 3rd group had PERFECT WATER. Now, to eliminate the "Placebo EFFECT" (you should know where I'm going w/ this one) I POUR the water(s) into plastic cups SO THAT THE "SUBJECTS" DONT KNOW which waters they are drinking. OBVIOUSLY I KNEW which water which group drank. NOW, this is where the whole flexibility and Stability test comes in and the Results are... SMART WATER GROUP: Failed the test. TAP WATER GROUP: Failed the Test.
PERFECT WATER GROUP: Some with significant flexibility results, others none; 100% on the stability/tipping test....

I AM NOT promoting this product all I'm just doing is show n telling you what I did to try to debunk it with a simple experiment. And if you still dont believe in that experiment... I tried this other way of experimenting it. Okay, so I had a bunch of my friends over which was 10 this time and I gave them ALL a glass of water (obviously b/e they are my guests :P) "would you like some water to drink" ... Anyways, with out them knowing I filled 5 glasses with BRITA FILTERED WATER and 5 glasses with PERFECT WATER. NOW like I said I DID NOT tell them which was which; thus removing the placebo effect anyway b/c they dont even know theyre being "subjects", I was just giving it to them as any person would host their guest w/ a drink. Anyways, sometime later about 30 mins. I asked all of them IF I CAN try to tip them over (now if you guys know of the "test" then you would know how this is done...If not, all we do is have you stand straight up with you feet together n NOT apart, have your arms straight on your sides with you palms cupped, we then push straightly down to try to tip you, Also, I DO NOT, put any force outwards AWAY from the body b/c OBVIOUSLY anyone will with out a doubt will tip over...ONLY straight down force)... NOTE THAT I KNEW EACH ONE WHO TOOK WHICH WATER and the results AGAIN Perfect water favored and passed the test and as for the BRITA FILTERED WATER it did not.

Like I said I am not scientist or chemist OR EVEN an Organic chem whiz, I only have a general simple knowledge of it and i wont even dare to go into details with that, but for the conclusion is that RESULTS speak for them selves and IDK WHAT THE HECK our scientists did to the water and whatever it is I cant explain it. Other than the results from my experiments, I also want to share it has done significant benefits in my mothers health of rheumatoid arthritis, I STILL cant quite explain how her pain goes away in just seconds, the mosts in minutes.

Anyways, Ryan, I REALLY hope if you do find some answer to this mystery I'd really appreciate it.

ugknock77 said...

Okay I am in the military and had a guy try and sell me this water. He did the balance test and first time he tried to make me unbalanced and nothing happened. His response was your tough but notice the unbalance? I drank the water and he did the test again and it was the same result. So I feel from my experience that the test is false. With that being said the taste of the water is outstanding. I wont spend $2.00 a bottle on it.

Brandon said...

I really enjoyed the blog battle. Mr. Anonymous went down in the first round! I bought a case of this stuff. I've done a taste test with a couple people. It's seems to be the most tasteless(at least over costco water) which I think is good in water. However, it's really freakin expensive...As far as embellished claims of miracle snake oil...welcome to retail sales. It's the same with almost all specialty products. Check out a mattress store sometime...There may be a grain of truth in some of these products, but for the most part, it's springs, oil based foam or cotton or latex. To some people, a $20,000 bed is worth the peace of mind that you go the very best, but I wouldn't do it.

Nickname unavailable said...

my grandma bought a case of this crap. I don't have the heart to tell her that if she wants something with more O2 in it, she should get some peroxide...

Anonymous said...

this water is the sh!t

Koralmae said...

Wow, Ryan...Pretty nuts people are still commenting on this. As I re-read this, it's OH SO OBVIOUS who the first "anonymous" post was from...the guy who tried to sell me the water first AT WORK! Anyway, who cares. U obviously called it right when you said he was "butt-hurt." And hard as he tried, he just didn't have the rationale to sell his own damn product effectively to people with half a brain. Bummer for him.

I WOULD like to thank all the former IBOs in my life, however, for never talking to me to about their B.S. products ever again. That really has been quite considerate of you.

So, all of you who know someone who gotten rich on Quixtar/Amway, tell us about it. (And by the way, "anonymous" or "IBO fightback" user names just make us laugh at you more... just so you know... and KNOWING is half the battle.

Eric said...

Ugh...so what if the water actually works on everyone that we try it on? Like if the Orlando Magic is using it? And it adds 4 inches to my verticle, and after drinking it I bench 15 pounds more? Is it still fake or a scam? What about my friend with asthma who drinks two bottles a day and no longer has to use an inhaler? That must be fake too so they can just scam my money out of me :)

But my bad, i shouldnt question the infinate intellegence of the bloging world because sitting around picking at other people who are actually doing something productive is how all successful people got where they are

Sorry to waste your time, but im more sorry i just wasted my time posting this.

Go Diamond! :)

.justin said...

oh how I love these comments!

it's the post that keeps on giving.

I'm so glad I'm subscribed!

PooBah said...

Thanks for the detailed breakdown of the many ways in which this is a scam. Super Water? Give me a break! It's amazing how many folks fall for this kind of swill. A friend who is also an Amway "distributor" is trying to sell me the stuff. He's a reasonably smart guy. Go figure. I'm gonna have to let him down easy ...

Paul said...

Ryan makes very, very valid points, his research is well done in some cases. I myself have started selling this water, mostly to help my friend who sells energy drinks alongside the water, the energy drinks have always made more sense to me as a smarter sale. The affects of any oxygen-enriched product, which I've both created, and sold as an independent business owner for years, I've found that the affects of oxygen to the muscles, is not only guaranteed to increase flexibility, balance, and focus, but does indeed taste better due to the "wetter" water concept. Wetter water is a scientific term used on any sort of water found to have a stronger bond of oxygen than hydrogen.
Ryan explains about the OH- OH+ concept that comes from microstructure,

Now, for calling this a scam, I'd have to say all bottled water in the sense is a scam, if you want to attack this brand, why not attack one of the biggest scam brands on the market: Fiji Water, which if you look in the bottle, they're water is cloudy.
You said that this company, claims to melt fat off the body, I'm pretty sure that's a universal claim of water, as it is the universal solvent, which can make one lose weight. Water of all walks of life will make you lose weight, if you use the bathroom, you've lost weight, granted if we truly did say that it is misleading, but it's not a claim I would not hear from Poland Spring, or Dasani. I only back Perfect Water cause 1: I've seen the plant where the water is filtered, which you made suggestion to earlier. We run the water 16-19 times, other companies will run it about 6 times. When you're dealing with a body of water that you're trying to demineralize, and relieve the body of pollution, toxins, etc. Perfect Water has patented a cleaning technology, as do many other companies, this companiy is older than most cleaning facilities, remember Perfect Water was not originally bottled water, it was a cleaning process to help litigate sanctions against polluted water found inside of Utah. This process was to make it so the filtering system of the state was the cleanest in the world. Now, they've only been recently bottling this water, and being that it was a small business, it was open to harsh scrutiny, and attacks, after being bought by Amway, who also own 1000s of items that some suck, and some are actually great, also owning the Orlando Magics team.

Paul said...

Now, I'm a skeptical consumer as well, I don't buy into advertisement, all I know is that I want to give the consumer a great product in an economic down-turn era. Do I believe EVERY claim of this bottled water? No, those claims come from testing of studies done by researchers, polls, and other forms of psychological graphing, in order to say this water can have such affects, versus no affects whatsoever. Perfect water can make their claims, because that is what the tests show, if they did not back up their claims with studies, they'd be just a foolish company, I'd laugh and say they don't know the first rules of R and D in business.
So no, I want to say that if you claim this water is a scam, then all bottled water is a scam, and I think you may have mentioned it for a second, or someone who posted a response said it, but in-truth, I will be as skeptical of any product I'd sell, but in the case of this water, I sell it because it does taste pretty good, and when it's cold it goes down very well, and it's just honestly a nice bottled water. Now that's my opinion, and I would not sell it if I myself wouldn't like it, you may say I'm irrational, you may think I put too much faith in this water, but it's water, come on! I don't put any faith in ANY product, I'm no fanboy, what's important to me is that I'm meeting people, promising them a good product, and if they don't like it, they don't come back and buy more. Some people drink Choclate Flavored Soda, a lot of people would think that gross, but if the consumer wants it, no one forces them to buy it, it's called capitalism, and all advertisement is a scam, look at how young they grab you. (I normally sample a whole bottle for my customers, btw I don't try to make them IBOs, I'm not a dick. I mainly supply information on the water held true by R and D, and not just because it's on the label, but because it is a decent water, and better, cleaner than most other bottled waters.)

Now, am I admitting that Perfect Water is a scam, no, only if you say some of the claims made on your opinion blog are on the website, I saw nowhere where they actually said the water will make you Superman, or that it depletes gross amounts of fat from the body, but if they did, I'd say they're bullshitting you, but if they have claims backed by R and D on how they distribute their water, then it is closer to truth than false. Sorry for the long post here, you probably will give up half-way, but if you don't thanks for reading my post. I agree with you on a lot of what you say, but the great thing about Capitalism is that a product is a product, our bottles are no more fancy than any other water. Thanks again

Anonymous said...

You stated about yourself, "Now I am no scientist, nor microbiologist nor chemistry major...I did hit my head a lot when I was younger". Clearly, this is true.

Seth said...

What a fun blog. I will leave the science to those more qualified or those who claim to be more qualified. All I ask is that all you Water Weasels, please leave me alone. I have a neighbor who holds a garage sale every weekend just to give away a sample of Perfect water only to get proselytized by a nurses assistant on Monday to the benefits of a Kangan system.

ENOUGH ALREADY - PLEASE.

I have had my tap water tested my the water company when the main broke, and by a private company when I wanted to verify the results. The bottom line is I'll put my tap water up against any of these other products. Unfortunately its not free, with what my water bill is lately I may be showering in Perfect Kangen out of a 100 gal. container to save money. But thats a different blog for a different time.

Drink what you want, or can afford, but just do it silently. You might choke if you talk and drink at the same time.

Is the water still perfect if it comes out your nose?

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Martin Family Blog said...

For you people who believes it makes you more flexible and feel better it will. That is just basic hypnosis. The power of suggestion at its best. When you have a person of authority (if you believe they are an authority) and they tell you something will happen it will. Listen to the research and use common sense and Pure Water doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Martin Family Blog said...

For you people who believes it makes you more flexible and feel better it will. That is just basic hypnosis. The power of suggestion at its best. When you have a person of authority (if you believe they are an authority) and they tell you something will happen it will. Listen to the research and use common sense and Pure Water doesn't have a leg to stand on.

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Anonymous said...

Well, I'm an Amway IBO, and I don't sell Perfect Water unless somebody asks me for it.

When the product was introduced, I set up an admittedly low-budget double-blind trial at a local medical clinic, using two of the same tests that were being used in demonstrations (toe-touch and twisting flexibility). Each subject performed both tests twice, once before and once after drinking a water sample. I prepared the samples in identical containers, coding each one with a randomly ordered 5-digit number, and turned them over to the clinic staff, who did not then know which sample represented Perfect Water or the controls (2 other premium bottled waters). The tests were DV recorded, from two camera angles, for analysis later, with the test subject speaking the sample number so that the video's could not be confused. The test instructions were pre-recorded, with audio and visual examples of how to perform the test, and the test administrator acted only as a facilitator. I did try to keep any bias out of it.

After a small handful of subjects had been tested, and before any of the results had been analyzed, the corporation became interested, and offered to take over the project. They even graciously offered me payment for my time constructing the test. They didn't even request a non-disclosure agreement. I note, however, that no results have been forthcoming.

I'm not a chemist, but I've been in the sciences all my life, and I read a lot. To me, the claims are just marketing. "Microstructuring" is fringe science, at best, and cannot be observed with today's technology. MBO just means rusted calcium and magnesium, I suspect. The only part I think is probably trustworthy is the filtration.

So, when folks ask me about Perfect Water, I tell them it's a premium filtered drinking water, and leave it at that.

Pity there have never been any double-blind studies made public.

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Kevin said...

Very nice blog. I had someone tell me about this today and offered me a bottle for FREE and i'm going to try it out when i weight lift on monday to see how it works for myself. But for something you can't measure and be 100% sure about leaves questionable doubt about their claim but still reason to believe, which is up to whoever may or may not buy it. But they do have legit support to their product being scientifically tested. I'm doing research because IF this product seems to work then i believe the world should try this out but if not then thats a shit load of wasted money on some damn water, and bloggers such as yourself should keep blogging like this to slow down the the purchase of this product.

What got me to believe in this product as the seller was telling me about it was the balance test, now this test does seem skeptical 1)whoever is giving the test could just use a different amount of force 2)you have no possible way to apply the same EXACT amount of force at the same EXACT angle, we are all human. So honestly this test dont mean shit. But when i do drink i do feel different, now i dont if its because im pysching my body to believe when i drink this ill be super strong or if it actually works, who know for sure. i would love to believe this product is true but im not someone who is easily impressed by balance games and claims. something too good to be true more than not in the end never seems to be true. one would hope though.

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GoGreenGetGreen said...

This is just a new product designed to make money ... Its designer water ... WATER ... It is not something you NEED to buy. Go filter your own or buy water ever filtered brand you like, but its WATER. It will NOT cure adult onset diabetes ... It can help control it but diet and ANY water will do the same. Worry about carcinogens you breath or that go on your skin or that you ingest. Why not worry about the consumable products you ingest and make sure your vitamins absorb in your system and don't crystalize and buy from a company where you can reap all these benefits and pay less than you normally do as they care about the consumer so much they profit share 51% of their customers. If you want to make a living by helping others, why not promote products that actually help and deliver a return. If you want to enhance your life and the lives of other without SELLING, please visit: www.saferearth.com/SC653 and inquire. This PERFECT WATER is ridiculous if you read this and I've read much more, but this blog is the best yet! I asked my Doctor and Oncologist as well ... There is no such thing as Perfect Water ... Its just another pretty premium one you're wasting your money on. If you like it, go for it. If you're seeking a bodily change because of this water switch, that change will only be in your head.

honest said...

Funny how so many people can have an opinion on something they have never tried. I don't know how they bottle the oxygen, but the difference it has made physically is certainly noted by myself.. I have tried it and like it. Expensive yes, sometimes you pay for beneficial products. All the minerals and stuff.....no comment. But the increase of oxygen benefits are there. I am NOT an IBO.

Unknown said...

hahaha oh man, this blog is funny. I am skeptical also. It really does seem like a scam. I have been curious about doing an experiment with it as well. Does anyone have any good ideas for an experiment? I think it would be best if it was a blind study, with more than 15 people.

I had a headache before drinking the water, just had half a bottle, and my headache has magically disappeared. Is that the magic of perfect water, or simply the magic of drinking water for dehydration...

Unknown said...
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lam said...

I personally like the water now what does scam has to do with it, IDK, but we all buy water either this water or a bottle water from any other vendor your choice. So if you choose to this water it because you like what your drinking and if your not 100% satisfied you will get your money back. What other vendor will do that. Hmmm... People always call something a scam and have no clue what they are talking about, it called people that just people not knowing. Enjoy your water no matter what kind you drink.

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Perfect said...
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